Episode #63: Katie Dalebout & Serena Wolf
Katie Dalebout and Serena Wolf have embraced vulnerability when it comes to living with anxiety. They’re the hosts of Spiraling, which they’ve dubbed an “optimistic” anxiety podcast, and they talk openly with me about what it means for them to live with anxiety, how they cultivate awareness around their mental health, and what strategies they’ve developed (or are in the process of developing) to manage day-to-day moments with anxiety.
Katie Dalebout is a writer and podcaster living in New York City. She is the founder of Let It Out, a website, podcast, and community for sharing Soft Stories—the stories that reveal our most vulnerable, tender selves—and meeting others who feel the same.
She believes that by sharing these stories we can feel more connected to each other and to ourselves. These stories take the form of a weekly long-form interview podcast, which has nearly 300 episodes. This led to a digital workshop called Let (A Podcast) Out, a how-to guide for launching independent podcasts.
Her first book, Let It Out: A Journey Through Journaling (2016), is a collection of essays and journaling prompts. Her writing has been published in Refinery 29, Hello Giggles, Mind Body Green, and The Fullest, where she writes a monthly column called “Pivot” about navigating transitions. She's spoken at Wanderlust, Soho House, and The Wing about independent podcasting, body image, and creative writing.
After graduating from Harvard in 2009, Serena Wolf attended Le Cordon Bleu Paris, receiving her cuisine diploma in 2011. Since then, she has put her culinary skills to work as a private chef, food writer, recipe developer, and blogger at Domesticate-Me.com. She is also the former private chef for two players on the New York Giants.
Known for her witty and irreverent voice, Serena’s philosophy on cooking is that it should be creative, experimental, and fun (dammit!). Her goal is to make homemade delicious, healthy meals accessible to the masses, including nutritionally confused dudes—a subject she tackles in her blog column turned bestselling cookbook The Dude Diet: Clean(ish) Food For People Who Like To Eat Dirty, and its sequel, The Dude Diet Dinnertime: 125 Clean(ish) Recipes for Weeknight Winners and Fancypants Dinners.
Serena is also passionate about beauty, wellness, fashion, and mental health, and her refreshing honesty and sense of humor have established her as a trustworthy “friend” in the crowded lifestyle space.
On today’s episode, we dive deep into how their different personalities and experiences play off each other (in podcasting and in life), and talk about how anxiety has affected each of them in both good and challenging ways. We also bond over our shared pet peeve of being called “brave” when dealing with an invisible illness. Throughout this episode, there are a ton of laughs, plus lots of relatable anxiety real talk. If you’ve ever accidentally hugged someone as they’ve gone in for a handshake and you can’t stop thinking about it, you’ll definitely appreciate this one!
“I’ve never felt remotely defined by my anxiety, I just think it’s a part of who I am.”
Here are some of the things Katie, Serena, and I chatted about:
How they met, and the conversation that led them to decide to have more conversations like it
The importance of communicating about anxiety upfront so people know how to support you
The difference between stress and anxiety, and the misperception that they’re the same thing
Serena’s experience having a panic attack, and why she called it “chest pain” at the hospital
For Katie, being in the process of understanding her anxiety and a “trial and error” period
How long-form conversations lend themselves to the intricacies of a condition like anxiety
Their different introductions to therapy, and the value of a therapist when you have anxiety
The fact that anxiety isn’t always consistent over time, which often means you have to adapt
Katie’s “cocoon year,” and what it meant to acknowledge both her anxiety and depression
The catharsis of sharing experiences, which allows you to process and recognize patterns
Navigating anxiety in relationships, especially if your partner does not have anxiety
How humor and levity counteract the overthinking that can go hand-in-hand with anxiety
The benefits, in both Serena and Katie’s minds, of anxiety, and how it has changed them
The importance of not feeling like your anxiety is better or worse than anyone else’s
“If we’re not allowed to talk about the things that make us feel weird, then we’re just going to feel alone.”
Support for this episode comes from Cali'flour Foods. Cali'flour Foods makes delicious cauliflower products like pizza crusts, flatbreads, and frozen pizzas. Their products, which are low-carb, low-glycemic, gluten-free, and grain-free, are for people who don’t want to sacrifice flavor for health. To learn more, Cali’flour Foods, and get 10% off your order using the code MADEVISIBLE at checkout. (Code can be used one time and is valid for any order.)
